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View Full Version : tire question for Steve P or anyone in the know



senvek
04-14-2004, 10:13 AM
With high tire rpms on gas and in particular, MTs, tire shape quickly becomes distorted. The center-line of the tire gives way to centripital force (not centrifugal) and the cross-section view looks like ^. It seems to me that the simple inclusion of thin metal bands ,or at least stiff plastic, running across the width of the tire tread would prevent this from happening, thus increasing the stability and control of the tire. So, why haven't any of the major tire guys done something to minimize the cetripital distortion of tires? In my thinking, bands running the circumference of the tire tread would make it too rigid, but bands running across the tire would increase the strength of the horizontal tread without decreasing its pliability.

Scott S
04-14-2004, 10:27 AM
Expensive, too much weight for racing, hard to produce, etc..

I can just imagine trying to explain to a customer why he is paying $5 more per set of tires, because there is metal inside! Righttt..

From a racers point of view, I see what you mean, and would like to try something like that, but it would definetlty cost a bit of money.

StevePond
04-14-2004, 10:45 AM
I've asked tire makers and the response has been that the tires don't work as well, and that they become too expensive.

adam lancia
04-14-2004, 12:21 PM
something i did when pro-line first came out with the M3 compound tires was run a strip of duct tape along the inside of the carcas about as wide as the tread. this helped to decrease the ^ shape when accelerating and it didn't add much weight to the tires either. for a MT, you may want to experiment with a different number of layers of tape to get the desired result. good luck,

adam

Fidelio
04-14-2004, 09:43 PM
you can get belted tires for touring cars. since i don't race touring cars i don't know if they're junk or not though. but they do exist. they're only marginally more expensive than non belted tires.

medial pro also has tc tires that have an internal honeycomb structure.

i would be interested to see an offroad tire that resisted ballooning.

InspGadgt
04-14-2004, 09:55 PM
In on-road a belted tire works great to reduce tire ballooning because the surface is flat. The tire doesn't need to contort to the surface to maintain traction. But in off-road the tracks are not flat. The tire needs to be able to form around the ruts and bumps for the pins to grab. If you belt the tire the pins will always keep the same orientation and not conform to the ground. However depending on how smooth it is it may be benificial on a blue groove type track...for the vast majority of bashers and racers though it's better to be unbelted. Also your talking about a lot more weight on the tires too so while it looks on the top that the tires are ballooning, on the ground it's still has more tire gripping.

Fidelio
04-14-2004, 10:22 PM
something to think about for sure.

now if they could just make a tire that lasted. ;)

bad for business i know but the price vs longevity thing is getting out of hand imo. i race 1/8 buggy.

InspGadgt
04-14-2004, 10:52 PM
price vs longevity vs performance...as the most expensive, fastest wearing tires tend to be the ones that perform the best...in general.

highroller
04-15-2004, 03:47 AM
It more noticeable when vehicle is elavated and you running it at full throttle. On a surface under use the tire doesn't always distort to those extremes. For a racing standpoint you'll want less tire patch to reduce resistance, while more tire patch at low speeds for turning and traction. The distortion is more noticeable as rubber got softer, the old RC10 knobbies showed very little growth or distortion but with the M2 and M3 compounds it's more noticeable. Haven't used the belted radials in TC but for oval they are only used for 2 reasons less wear, or effect the cars handling. They are ran on right front for less wear or on right side to give car a slight push.

Fidelio
04-15-2004, 04:45 PM
while it's a ton of work i have seen 1/10 scale truck tires on 1/8th scale rims and while the less resistance sounds like a good idea, this guy had the HOOK UP in the corners with the wider tires and was blazing.

the grapvine also says this is how Travis Amezcua won with his Hot Bodies, the 1/10th scale truck tires on 1/8th scale buggy rims.

senvek
04-15-2004, 06:59 PM
You know, when I first posted this question, I wasn't even sure it would even get looked at, and now look at it. Everyone's input, and consideration has been an education for me. Best of all, it came from guys and gals who not only love the hobby as much or more than I do, but by genuinely nice people. So, thanks to everyone who has helped me with this. A toast to all the good people of R/C. Thanks my brothers.

InspGadgt
04-15-2004, 08:29 PM
Glad to have helped :)

kitty
04-17-2004, 01:34 AM
Wow, great thread! This was very educational for me too, and it was really nice to read a thread without a huge whizzing contest or arguments going on.

Fidelio
04-18-2004, 01:34 AM
yay us :eek: :cool:

adam lancia
04-19-2004, 11:38 AM
anytime....

TC3Racer
04-19-2004, 02:51 PM
Just because the tire is ''ballooning'' (tends to be the term) doesn't mean the tire is always the verdict.

Its pretty occasional to see Monster Trucks pulling a corner and getting the front right or both tires on one side off the ground and ballooning like pizza cutters. Although this may look impressive due to the power of the engine to get the tire to expand that much, its really not.

Its pretty common for a tire to expand due to poor differential performance. The diffs can be in bad condition and distorting uneven power to each wheel or some of the gears can get stripped.

This is mainly where torsen diffs come in and why they were created. When you see a wheel ballooning thats not on the ground thats alot of wasted power. With a torsen differential, it puts the power to the wheel(s) that are on the ground. This provides an insane amount of traction gain. With the front torsen diff. in an 1/8th scale buggy you can increase your traction by up to 40%. With all 3 torsen diffs? 70%. They definitely dont come cheap though. Quality torsen diffs like Fioroni run over 200 bucks a pop.