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Thread: Any bets on what will be the fastest? Nitro, Electric, and how fast?

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  1.  
    Once you add the amount of batteries required to get up to speed. The electric can end up weighing more than the nitro.
     

  2.  
    Join Date
    09-30-2002
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    OK, you insisted, back to the topic LoL

    Interstate,

    It is the other way around. you can not bend the physic law, heavier = more centrifugal force, meaning more forces sending your car out of the curve.

    It is at any speed, high speed turn or tight slow turn.

    Look at rally car or F1 car, they are shaving every ounce of weight to gain accel but also to get a better handling car.

    Note also that because my car is so light, I am using extreme low 30 shore rating tire that are sticking like glue on asphalt.

    Not to mention on high speed turn, it is more a question of aerodynamics that anything else...

    Heavier car are easier to control though, as the lighter car are more prone to be extreme when pushed to the limit and can fly high !

    Nitro or heavier car can't use the same tire without going through them at a rate no one can afford or even can destroy low shore tire - I've seen pretty messed-up tire after only a few laps -

    I know it all sound like I am the Man in the house and that I get cocky, but it is not the case, I am only stating fact from my experience and what I've seen and tried.

    Studysession,

    I am using the lighweight Lithium Polymer batt.

    For example, my pack is only 263 grams ( roughly half a pound ) and is twice as powerfull as a 6 cell Nimh pack that weight 1/3 more than that.

    DFF
     

  3.  
    I forgot you were running LiPo's --- I have some LiPo's but have not assembled the packs yet. Looking forward to trying them but need new solder tips first.
     

  4.  
    Join Date
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    I see what you mean. I was kindof thinking of a car that's too light.
     

  5.  
    Quote Originally Posted by Interstate
    Hey DFF, Because your car is much lighter than nitros, how does that affect handleing? It seems to me that because it's lighter, it'd have less grip around corners at high speeds.
    Well put daff.
    Dont forget that if you had a heavier car that it would be hard to turn as well.
    If your going 100 mph with a heavy vehicle, its going to want to go strait, when you go to turn, the centrifugal force is going to pull on one side of the car, and a heavier will have alot more centrifugal force than a light car because of weight and it takes more power to get a heavy car up to speed and is going to transfer all of that weight to one side of the car and pull it out in that direction. Meaning your going to lose some traction. If you turn too sharp you could actuly roll it. ( not saying that a light car cant roll, but probbly not as easily.)

    Hope i explained that right.
     

  6.  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1822
    Just curious what everyone thinks will be the fastest. Brushless motors have some smokin power and I'm sure they car get up to some rediculous speeds. What about nitro? Anyone think they can go as fast? What do you think the top speed will be?

    I will guess 125 mph by Cliff Lett with a brushless something.
    Hey i am only 13 and i have some big planes for my traxxas nitro 4-tech, right now it will do about 65mph and i was thinking about puting a rb innovations super charger and a jag rc nitrous oxide system in it. It is going to go fast i think.
    Do you think it will work, because it has never been done before.
     

  7.  
    Join Date
    05-18-2001
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    Do a search of the boards, many people have concluded that the supercharger from rbinnovations doesn't work, and neither does the jag nitrous kit.
     

  8.  
    I posted this on another topic but it seems more fitting here. As I state later in this post, the World's Fastest R/C Car is NOT Cliff Lett's car nor was his "Guinness" Record an official World's Record.

    ]Hi Everyone

    BIG JIM Greenemeyer here. I usually don't go on forums other than my own motor forum at www.rccars.com or the Integy Forum because I've had people impersonate me. They say stupid things and I get in trouble. If I just stay on the two then people know it's not me when it happens. But I'm making an exception today. I say this because someone else is registered on this forum as "Big Jim". I am bigjim1 here.

    For those who don't know me let me give a little personal background.
    I have been manufacturing, winding, tuning and designing electric motors for toy cars for more than 40 years now. I rewound my first slot car motor in 1964 while still in high-school. I later went into business manufacturing slot car motors. In 1978, I sold the equipment that couldn't be converted into making r/c car electric motors and started Team Checkpoint Racing, becoming incorporated in 1984.

    During that period I desiged and manufactured the first ROAR approved electric motor completely made in the America called the Checkpoint Platinum. If I had to mention a "claim-to-fame" so to speak, it would be this motor which I feel was way ahead of it's time. Last year, one of my Platinum II motors made during that time period sold on EBay for almost $200.00 and it was nothing particularly special. Just a pristine example of a new production Platinum motor found in the stash of an old hobby shop. It had the original price still on the package of $75.00. Team Checkpoint Racing Inc., officially went out of business in 1990. But I stayed busy building motors and racing.

    These days, I make the bulk of my income from consulting other motor companies on r/c car motor design. Associated Electrics and Trinity Products were two of my latest clients. I still build some motors and sell other r/c products and I do a lot of other forum work which is totally magnanomous. I don't mean to sound so grandious using that word. Let's just say I do a lot of work helping people with their motor questions for no monitary compensation at all. I feel it's just giving back a little that has given me so much in the 24 years I've been in the "biz". I can't think of a better way to support the hobby/sport of r/c car racing.
    You can read a bit more about me in the December 1999 issue of Radio Controlled Car Action Magazine in the article, "The Century in RC".

    I also have a published book about r/c car electric motor tuning and design titled, Big Jim's R/C Motor Black Book, printed by Trafford Publishing available from my website (www.bigjimracing.net) or by ordering on-line direct from the publisher.

    Well, that's enough about me. I hate talking about myself because I always feel I'm sounding pretentious when I do.
    I just wanted to post here on this forum that the official record for the World's Fastest R/C Car belongs to Chris Collins at 112.5 mph which was not exceeded by Cliff Lett's attempt, although it is a "Guinness" record. Chris's car and motor were made by Steve Saik, formally of Immortal Force Racing. The reason I am familiar with that record is the 13 turn quint armature in that brushed electric motor was made by me. The record was recorded and the race info was sent to and reported in RCCA magazine.

    The record was made using a 300 foot-long straight-away and from a standing start. The speed was recorded at the end of that 300' finish line. Gas engines were allowed as were brushless motors of any size. Electric cars could use any number of batteries. The only restriction was the car had to be 1/10th scale. The car Chris used was a Top Fuel dragster of the type currently used at 1/10th scale drag meets using 20, 600mah cells, if my memory serves me correctly. I'm almost sure Steve Pond can find something in the archieves if anyone would like more info on the race.

    The record has lasted a long time. But I believe cars can go much faster with the new Ni-Mh 3300mah cells we use now. The absolute speed record will probably fall next year but Chris and Steve will be there and I am already testing special Power Trix armatures that will be in some of the motors at that race. It's going to be a fun and historic race, I'm sure.

    Good luck to everyone going.

    Good Racing,
    BIG JIM Greenemeyer
    www.bigjimracing.net[/QUOTE]
     

  9.  
    bull they do to work trust me, i am an expert. i just put the supercharger and nitrouse among a lot of other things at the end it cost me over $500 but it was worth it because i have clocked it at over 150 mph. I told you i am an expert


    Quote Originally Posted by Interstate
    Do a search of the boards, many people have concluded that the supercharger from rbinnovations doesn't work, and neither does the jag nitrous kit.
     

  10.  
    Join Date
    06-21-2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by skulnick7
    bull

    That about explains your post you just made.
     

  11.  
    Join Date
    03-20-2002
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    If any of you are into physics, the above stated run by Big Jim would require an average acceleration of 2.7 G's!!! I'm not doubting it at all, rc cars can be really quick.

    If that acceleration were kept up for a quarter of a mile, it would result in a trap speed of 241 mph! Cool eh. I'm betting Big Jim was pushing the limits of traction, which makes 241 mph a theoretical speed limit of an RC car at a 1/4 drag strip.
    Traxxas ERBE, 2Slash, XO-1, Associated SC10FT, Frog, 5th Scale Titan, and a small air force.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/zaviac778
     

  12.  
    Join Date
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    Can somebody confirm that the German at SAWS broke his record with a 146 mph run this year or was that just a radar/laser measured speed that was not official?
     

  13.  
    Join Date
    08-21-2004
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    Texas
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    I was at the event in November and saw the runs. Joerg raised the two-way record to 123+ mph using virtually the same setup he used last year to go 120+. On the last day of the event right before dark he put the boat in the water with a new motor and prop - unfortunately he hit the shore after the first pass through the traps and could not repair the boat in time to return to the water. Fortunately the clock showed a one-way average of 133 mph. A police cruiser was sitting at the far end of the lake and registered 143 mph on radar just before it hit the bank. This makes sense as the boat was obviously still accelerating as it went through the traps. With a better line through the traps he certainly could have been close to - or over - a 140 mph record.

    The same problem limits the top speeds of both boats and cars - traction. The German team make their own props and are still learning what works. High cell count cars are traction limited, so lighter cells will only hurt them; the weight difference is not that great anyway when LiPos are wired together for maximum amp draw - ca. 150 amps. With current technology there is more than enough power to go 150+, but traction and a long enough runup are the hurdles. Legg Lake is already about at the limit for speeds - not enough run up and slow down length.
     

  14.  
    Join Date
    08-21-2004
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    Texas
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    bull they do to work trust me, i am an expert. i just put the supercharger and nitrouse among a lot of other things at the end it cost me over $500 but it was worth it because i have clocked it at over 150 mph. I told you i am an expert
    What a troll, he is not smart enough to remember what he wrote in another thread in this forum. Here is what he wrote on November 22nd:

    here is what ia m going to be racing in about 2 years, i am going to be working on this 4-tech over winter anyways here is the list of stuff i am going to get for it.
    - Rb innovation custom super charger
    - jag r/c custom nitrouse oxide system
    - traxxas tuned pipe and header
    - Rb innovations air intake
    - rb innovation hypervalve fuel system
    And to top it off i am going to be running traxxas's new 33% nitro, and
    i am going to get the engine ported and polished.....I figure it will go 150 plus mph. and 0-60 in about 2 seconds and it will run about 60,000 rpm.
    What an "expert", he sure doesn't let physical laws get in his way! Don't try to fool the honest posters on this board again skullboy....
     

  15.  
    Join Date
    01-26-2002
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    Gold Coast, Australia
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    I was wondering....as a marketing gimmick/ploy whatever you may call it - why don't Novarossi or any reputable engine manufacturer out there create one brand spanking *once off prototype* engine out of *aerospace* materials and stretch the limits of engineering?

    I'm talking about titanium parts and the like - of course most (or all) will be custom made, but if it works, i'm sure it would be a marketing winner.

    In the real car world I believe the most powerful Nissan GTR sports a 1600+ bhp engine with titanium parts and the like inside.

    I'm sure with the right minds and the right tools brainstorming together, a 150mph+ nitro bullet is very much possible?
     

  16.  
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    feracer
    Thanks for the info about SAWS! If you have anymore info to add please share it with us about SAWS and the fast boats.
     

  17.  
    Join Date
    08-21-2004
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    Texas
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    What would you like to know Craps? I hold three FE SAW records, and my catamaran records are faster than any NAMBA non-rigger hydro record. I 've competed in 3 of the 4 NAMBA "World" SAWs held in LA and am a member of that original group of SAW racers. I'm also well tied into the FE SAW scene. Again, what specifically would you like to know? I could write a book....as could many others.
    Last edited by feracer; 12-02-2004 at 06:06 PM.
     

  18.  
    Join Date
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    Wow!

    I'm impressed!

    Was Li-Pos used much during any records at SAWS?

    What ESC, batteries (# of cells and type) and motor/s was used for the record fastest run?

    Thank you!
     

  19.  
    Join Date
    08-21-2004
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    LiPos are not legal for NAMBA competition; talking with some of the faster racers, they do not believe that LiPos will give higher speeds than NiMH cells. Here's why: wiring enough of them together to give enough amps means there is little weight advantage. We don't need high capacity, we need maximum watts out fast, and the NiMH cells do that best - for now. Also, speed does nothing if you cannot keep the boat on the water, and until we get even more refined in our hull designs, the extra weight of the NiMH cells helps keep the boats on the water. Eventually this will change, but not today.

    For the 123 mph record the Team JAGs T-Hydro ran 32 Hopf GP 3300 cells, a Lehner 2260/5 motor (custom, it helps to know the maker personally), custom SS 2-bladed prop based on the Octura 1945 made by the Team, and a Schulze 32/170 ESC. An interesting bit of trivia - this is the exact same controller used to set the european car speed record this fall at 111.17 mph; Joerg on the JAGs team loaned it to his Swedish friend Sigge for the car run. What a guy, loaning a $600 electronic part to a guy in another country.

    For the single 133 mph pass the prop was changed out for a custom 3-bladed one - he may have changed out the motor too, but that isn't confirmed. You should have seen that boat accelerate! I was standing on the driver's stand as it went by below me, quite a thrill. The hull was carbon fiber and fiberglass and it hit the shore at 143 mph, spun into the air, crossed a point of land and landed back in the lake. The bottom of the hull was damaged but the boat was intact - quite a sight to witness. Too bad he couldn't back up that 133 mph pass...
     

  20.  
    Join Date
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    feracer
    I have a Schulze 40.160 ESC I am selling because I feel that it is not enough for this speed run and have something more in mind. I have to agree that weight is needed to keep that boat or car in my case down, but with weight added power is needed to push the weight.

    Thanks for the info!
     

  21.  
    i see alot of you talking about the cooling problem for nitros there is a answer for that look at the differentaal pressure from in front of the car to behine it cooling does not need a large hole air flow will compensate
     

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