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Thread: Any bets on what will be the fastest? Nitro, Electric, and how fast?

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  1. my idea..... 
    #26
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    you guys remember that vid with the 200mph tether cars? well those ran on .049 baby b engines. so my idea is an hpi micro rs4 with baby engine conversion. hehe. pity i cant enter as im in south africa...and some of you think its far????
     

  2.  
    #27
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    I can almost bet my pay check that electric will win both hands down !

    For one thing, it is way easier to break a speed record with an electric than a nitro.

    There is multiple reason for this, but the most obvious are:

    1- Brushless can get easely twice the rpm any nitro could dream off and can push high torque from 0 to top rpm

    Look-out for 65 000 rpm under load electric beast, while nitro would have a hard time getting over 35 000 rpm under load !

    Rpm is what allow your car you to have a high speed, low down torque are the "balls" necessary to get to that speed in a reasonnable time and distance.

    Nitro, would have to compensate using multiple speed system (read more complicated and more $$$ to have a reliable, very high power 3 or more speed system), and very expensive custom gear to get to an extremly high top speed.

    2- The new battery technology (read Lithium Polymer) would be a very high advantage over the NimH / Nicad for breaking speed record

    Very easy to understand: more volts means less amp, more efficency, more power to the ground, less dissipated power ( joule effect) and the only way to have more than 1000 Watt motor.

    Power (in Watt) = Volt x Amp

    If you want to increased the power, you have to increase the voltage, otherwise you will end-up having cable the size of my toes and esc and motor dissipating heat like crazy.

    For instance, 22 volt would be a minimum, but I would not be surprise to see 30+ volt system pumping-out incredible power.

    For exemple, 1000 Watt motor under a regular 7.2 volt means an outrageous 140 Amp which translate into extreme $$$ esc.

    The same 1000 Watt under 22.2 volt means a reasonnable 45 Amp, which translate into way less money, small regular esc (without even big fins LoL).

    That's were the Lipo shine big time really because with 3.7 volt par cell instead of 1.2 volt, there is no need for extended chassis, extra weight for 12+ 1.2 volt cell and so on.

    With the brushless and Lipo, you'll see car breaking the 100 mph barrier very easy and all that without breaking you bank account.

    BTW, I am already building a high end 1/10 Pro4 + brushless + Lipo, mind you not for all out speed record, but it will sure knock the pants off a lot of nitro sedan !

    DFF
    Last edited by DaFF; 05-14-2004 at 03:15 PM.
     

  3.  
    #28
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    Actually the motor was a Lehner 2250 8 turn for the fastest boat.
    He probably used the Schulze fut-32.170W or the fut-40.160WK or something like it for the controller.
    Last edited by Chase023; 05-14-2004 at 03:20 PM.
     

  4.  
    #29
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    Lehner biggest brushless are 2270, look here:

    http://home.t-online.de/home/lehner-...n/p00index.htm

    Otherwise, the common mistake is to think that low turn brusless motor are faster than high turn motor.

    As a matter of fact, if you followed my theory on the "more voltage = more power", you will need to go with a lower turn motor, because a 8 turn motor under 22.2 or more volt will just go pass the rpm limit and explode, sending rotor pieces miles away LoL !

    For speed record, watch the high turn motor, less than 3000 Kv brusless motor that have incredible torque and efficency number.

    Drive them with high volt, close to the rpm limit and they will push any car well over 100 mph mark.

    For those interested in numbers and curves, watch here:

    http://home.t-online.de/home/lehner-...n/d08index.htm

    DFF
     

  5.  
    #30
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    Can folk outside of the US enter?
     

  6.  
    #31
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    Lehner 2270s bigger than the Lehner 2280s???
     

  7.  
    #32
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    The biggest ones are the 22 series, the biggest of which is the 2280 (about the size of a coke can)
    He was probably talking about the 27 series, which is actually smaller than the 22 series. The 27 series was the predecessor to the 19 series.
    By the way, chase- the controller was the 32.170W.
     

  8.  
    #33
    Ok, I've just gotta say this as I am not an electrical genius......anyone want to translate all that into english?? LOL Sounds like you guys know your stuff, but having built race cars (real ones) in my life, I am gonna put my money on a nitro car to win and win big.

    Just my two cents.......
     

  9.  
    #34
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    Well, keep in mind that these cars have to pass the 111MPH recored set by the RC10L30 by Associated Electronics Of last year. That one was electric with like 16 cells i think? So, gas may be fast, but electric still takes the cake, also in acceloration.


    Kyle
     

  10.  
    #35
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    I though cliff had 22 cells on board, many of them AA size. But like steve said, they may get to triple digits first, but lack the torque to pull them even further. This is why I'm thinking the nitros will be the winners.
     

  11.  
    #36
    cliff used 2/3 AA's actually...
    and I've heard of a TC3 with a 1930/5 on 16 that pushed 120mph.. till it got airborn, and blew apart. =\
    -Nick
     

  12.  
    #37
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    Miller: since this is the WORLD'S Fastest RC Car Challenge, anyone from this planet can enter! So, unless you're Michael Jackson, you're in.

    We'll be working out an official entry form soon, once the date for Irwindale is set.
     

  13.  
    #38
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    i was wondering.. im not an electric guy, but does anyone use peltier junctions to cool their ESCs? I've read about them, they are a wafer thing that transfers heat from one side to the other, with a little electricity..... a lot of times they are used to cool computer processors.
     

  14.  
    #39
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    That's been brought up before. They can put frost on hot CPUs and such effortlessly. The only concern is that if you sneeze too hard when you're near them is they break, so they've never really been applicable to RC cars. I suppose one could use it on these cars, but it does use electricity. How ever small that amount is, is too large for the serious racer, they want all the juice they can get, for as long as possible, even if it means a pile of melted magnets and copper at the end of the race.
     

  15.  
    #40
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    are they really that fragile? whoa, i think they make some stronger ones though cause they are used in some of those battery operated mini mini refrigeratiors
     

  16.  
    #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jknapp4888
    Ok, I've just gotta say this as I am not an electrical genius......anyone want to translate all that into english?? LOL Sounds like you guys know your stuff, but having built race cars (real ones) in my life, I am gonna put my money on a nitro car to win and win big.

    Just my two cents.......
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris LaPanse
    The biggest ones are the 22 series, the biggest of which is the 2280 (about the size of a coke can)
    He was probably talking about the 27 series, which is actually smaller than the 22 series. The 27 series was the predecessor to the 19 series.
    By the way, chase- the controller was the 32.170W.
    Here it is in english:
    The largest motors that lehner makes are the 22 series (2230, 2240, 2250, and 2280) Out of these the biggest is the 2280, which is the size of a coke can:

    It will take 24-32+ cells, and put out up to 3500+ watts (5hp) at 50000 rpm.
    The 27 series is an old line of motors that has mostly been replaced by the 19 series (1920, 1930, 1940, and 1950) These will take 12-20 cells, and put out up to 2000 watts (3hp) at up to 50000 rpm.
    The controller that I mentioned, the 32.170W, is very simple to understand. The 32 means up to 32 cells, and the 170 means 170 amps continuous current. The W simply means that it is water cooled. Hope this is in plain enough english for you

    edit: I would put my money on electric, as I don't think a nitro car could make the 5hp that the 22 series can make and put it down effectively to the ground.
     

  17.  
    #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interstate
    How ever small that amount is, is too large for the serious racer, they want all the juice they can get, for as long as possible, even if it means a pile of melted magnets and copper at the end of the race.
    It still has to run afterwards.No sacraficial motors.
     

  18.  
    #43
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    you guys remember that vid with the 200mph tether cars? well those ran on .049 baby b engines.
    No, those ran on .61 cu in engines, no zero in front, probably around 10 horsepower, if you go look the exhaust is like two inches long on those too, to move the peak HP up as high in the RPM band as possible.

    I'm predicting an electric, simple pan chassis. Well over 120 if someone has access to a windtunnel(college?), the aerodynamics is what will be the limiting factor, air resistance is a beeech at those speeds.

    My serpent 950 can hit 75-80 easily enough with a strong .21, but like PeterV said, power requirements go up exponentially at those speeds to get a few mph more, though.
     

  19.  
    #44
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    For those hesitating to enter the challenge, all I have to say is that by today technology (brushless + Lipo) it doesn't take a hell of $$$ to go well over 100 mph.

    Actually, I might try some brushless + Lipo setup that could surprise a lot of ppl for less than a grand.

    I think my next purchase will be a speed gun LoL

    DFF
     

  20.  
    #45
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    This is gonna get a little bit expensive especially with a 22 series Lehner motor (1400-3000 Watts depending on what motor) and a high cell controller like the Schulze fut-32.170W or the fut-40.160WK..and that would be just the powerplant... Ewwww..

    I wonder if most people entering will have this type of set up..damn..heh

    The challenge will be able to keep those tires glued to the wheel and keeping the car on the ground instead of airborne..heh
     

  21.  
    #46
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    OK, I don't want to say too much about what I have under my sleeve, but here is a rough idea of a budget for an electric high speed car:

    200$ - A used electric 1/10 chassis
    200$ - One "over 1000 Watt" brushless motor (no need to go as big as a 2240, to my opinion), there are 1300 Watt high quality motor for around 150$
    200$ - One brushless electric speed control ( 80 Amp continuous could be sufficient if you go with high voltage, this is a key element)
    300$ - High voltage, high discharge Lithium polymer cells (over 22.2 volt is necessary)
    120$ - High end Lipo charger (like the Astro 109)

    I did not take into account the radio, servo and all the good stuff any ppl should already have if serious about this challenge.

    So for close to a grand, one could have an excelent system that could go well over 100 mph....

    I don't think you would compete in the same league as the manufacturer or independant team, but I am sure you could be a the top of the independant class.

    From the rules:

    Entrants will be divided into three classes: Manufacturer Team, Independent Team and Individual.

    MANUFACTURER TEAM: entries fielded by RC companies will run in the Manufacturer Team class.

    INDEPENDANT TEAM: if the entered vehicle is the collaboration of three or more individuals operating without the support of a manufacturer, it will run in the Independent Team class. High school shop teams, university engineering departments, RC clubs ... this is your class!

    INDIVIDUAL: any vehicle entered by a single person will run in the Individual class.

    Just be creative, go to the brushless forum, ask questions and you will see it is not out of reach.

    We sure don't have the same money as the team, but by using our brain and designing an efficient setup, I am sure some will be very surprised as to what 1000$ can do !

    DFF
    Last edited by DaFF; 05-15-2004 at 05:47 AM.
     

  22.  
    #47
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    I think a nitro will take it. My idea (if I were to enter the contest) would be to somehow fit a 5 or more speed tranny into the car. Easy as that (kinda)!
     

  23.  
    #48
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    A nitro has enough of an RPM range that I don't this that many gears would be needed.I think torque would be more of an issue at speeds beyond 100 MPH.
    Last edited by crank throw wei; 05-18-2004 at 12:49 AM.
     

  24.  
    #49
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    Here is what I predict for the nitro guys:

    Two R&B 28 TM ( wait for the race version ) with a 3 speed geared to the moon.

    DFF
     

  25.  
    #50
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    I think I would look elsewhwere, I think something not out of the 'little car' parts box. Look around at all the technology from other areas besides .21 size nitro RC cars.
    I think a 1.00 inch ducted fan engine ( 10-12 or more horsepower ) could be used. LOL, I don't know how to get that kind of power to the ground, though. If it can be put to the ground and controlled on that track....

    Some of the 1/5 scale hardware might be up to it, maybe...

    Remember, you have a platform two feet long by what, 12 or 16 inches wide(approximately), that's a lot of room to carry some real horspower I'm thinking...

    To truly go fast will take some fairly serious aerodynamic testing, and a fiberglass body to hold up to the kind of atmospheric pressures at 150mph(heh). Someone that can get access to a small windtunnel at a university would have a big advantage.

    (just rambling in my mind)
     

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