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Thread: Multihulls Cat's and Tri's

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  1. Cool Multihulls Cat's and Tri's 
    #1
    Join Date
    04-19-2005
    Location
    Orlando, FL USA
    Posts
    16
    Does anyone out there have a multihulled sailboat?

    I own a Wild Cat by Victor Models and love it. Very Fast! I had to make a few changes outside of the orginal plans, so if you could use ideas or have ideas contact me.

    I have been looking for a sailing trimaran. The only one I found was a rather pricie sailing hydrofoil. Looked nice but I am uncertain about a hydrofoil, looks like it would draw too much water. The price tag was also out of range for may beginners (or just an average Joe like me). I have sailed many differnt cat's & tri's throughout my life. Trimarans seam the most stable and roomy. To keep my dream alive while I'm land locked I would love to find an R/C Trimaran, so if any one knows of one Please let me know. I will probably have to make one if not.

    If any other catamarans available please let me know as well?

    If you are not familar with multihull design ask I'll help what I can. They are fast and stable. Haveing more hulls in the water accually means less wetted surface equaling less drag meaning more speed. As a case history remember the America's Cup New Zealand Challege, Dennis Connor Vs New Zealand. Mono hulls cannot keep up. Though I tend to disagree and many others do too, with Connors decission to use the Cat, he stayed with the written rules and was able to use it and keep the Cup in America. The Cup will never see another multihull, but point proven.

    My fleet consists of;
    *Victor Models Wild Cat (Catamaran)
    *Aussie II (monohull snailboat) great beginner boat
    *MGA Shadow Shifter RTR (motor catamaran)
    *offbrand mini sub like a Megatech Ocean Explorer 1 (great to annoy my aquarium fish)

    Just a couple of my favorite sites
    Victor Models See the Wild Cat & other great boats
    Mega Tech See the Ocean Explorer 1 & other great boats
    MGA Entertainment See the Shadow Shifter

    I am not really a beginner been at this for a couple of years, but in the big picture, an intermeadate novice. I want to learn more from the senior members and others.
    Last edited by jmat101; 04-20-2005 at 03:25 PM.
     

  2.  
    #2
    Join Date
    08-09-2005
    Location
    Newkirk, OK
    Posts
    5
    From what I've gathered on another forum, most (all four of them) the people that have attempted to produce multihulls have all but given up due to one reason or another. One of those even races periodically in the club I sail with. There's a dedicated section to multis on the rcsailing.net forums, and it explains the difficulties that have come to the multi arena. But for these, you can expect some pretty substantial costs involved.
     

  3.  
    #3
    Join Date
    04-19-2005
    Location
    Orlando, FL USA
    Posts
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by tdonily
    From what I've gathered on another forum, most (all four of them) the people that have attempted to produce multihulls have all but given up due to one reason or another. One of those even races periodically in the club I sail with. There's a dedicated section to multis on the rcsailing.net forums, and it explains the difficulties that have come to the multi arena. But for these, you can expect some pretty substantial costs involved.
    Thanks for the info I will check out the link. What I have learned from real world sailing, the multihull folk are a breed apart & most are considered not normal (NUTS). Any way who dictates what is normal. As far as the "substantial cost"....yeah I'm seein' that. Where is it that those periodical races happen?
     

  4. wild cat 
    #4
    Join Date
    03-04-2005
    Location
    Plymouth MA
    Posts
    188
    how is wild cat on open water? salt water bay ? I sail Sea Wind and Fair Wind on open water,live on coast. Larry
     

  5.  
    #5
    Join Date
    08-09-2005
    Location
    Newkirk, OK
    Posts
    5
    The forum I was speaking of in particular was www.rcsailing.net , there's been quite a bit of discussion of them there. At least in the past, but there's a section devoted to Multi's there.
     

  6. Wild Cat 
    #6
    Join Date
    04-19-2005
    Location
    Orlando, FL USA
    Posts
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by blizard05
    how is wild cat on open water? salt water bay ? I sail Sea Wind and Fair Wind on open water,live on coast. Larry
    As a part of it's name "wild". Open water sail I think is preffered. The boat has twin keels & rudders. They will hang up in weeds very easy . If you are in Florida I'm certain you have incountered Hydrilla, I grows everywhere and tall, from lake bottom to top. Its very troublesome. I often have to scout a lake all the way around to find suitable launh and retrevel sites.

    One nice thing about the boats design is the distance between the hulls. This makes for a stable sail with very little heeling. I have yet to capsize her(Believe me, I've tried). The width between the hulls also makes it easy to retrieve if it gets stuck. I have caste on it useing my fishing pole and a two ounce weight. I land it between the hulls and cross beams (an easy target) and winch it in.

    As far a saltwater use... This is the only boat of my small floatilla that I would even consider. It's all in the construction and how watertight you make it. My boat seeps not a drop. However I'm sure I used epoxy than it really needed. I also placed my servos, reciever, & batteries into balloons with the wire sticking out of the opening then sealed the opening with a twist tie and a dab of sillicone. Water and eletronics do not play togather nicely and saltwater is extreamly corrosive... protect your investment.

    I really love this boat, but I have had to make a few design changesout side of the manufactures instructions to get the sails act right and seal her tight.
     

  7. Rc sailing multihulls 
    #7
    I've built quite a number of small multihulls starting with a 24" cat that "free sailed" across a small pond faster than I could run! They fascinate me!
    In recent years I've done a lot of experiments with adding hydrofoils to multihulls. I've built a 56" LOA(72" beam) model that is extraordinarily fast yet draws only 10" of water off the foils and 2.5" when on foils. The most startling aspect of the foil borne rc multi to me is that if you use a system similar to the one used by Dr. Bradfield on his full size foilers the little boats use the foils not only for lift but to develop their own righting moment and to develop pitch resistance. People who are experienced with small rc multihulls know that the biggest problem associated with these boats is pitchpole and or capsize-and that it happens in the blink of an eye. The Bradfield foil systems virtually eliminate that problem and allow even beginners to sail in strong winds with no fear of capsize or pitchpole.
    The disadvantages are the expense to purchase a ready made boat, and in some locales which are weed infested they are not suitable. But anyplace a monohull with a vertical fin can be sailed these boats can also be sailed.
    I want to encourage people interested in rc multies to look seriously at learning about hydrofoils so that they can consider building their own boat or modifying an existing boat to sail with foils.That is by far the best way to do it since you need to learn about the technology and there is NO better way than to do it yourself vs. buying a prebuilt boat! Foils make small multihulls much easier to sail fast in strong winds and will simply take your breath away speed wise. I'll try to answer any questions and would encourage people to investigate this part of the rc multihull experience!
    Sail Fast, Doug Lord
     

  8. Foils and the Multi 
    #8
    Join Date
    04-19-2005
    Location
    Orlando, FL USA
    Posts
    16
    In fact the ONLY trimaran R/Cs I've ever seen were Foils, and yeah, the price was very stiff. I think it is also the first time I've seen Foils and Sail togather, seams in theory to be a great marrage.
    Are all foils tri's? Do you think you could post a link or two?

    I'm also curious about the rudders, are they fixed or do they kick up? I imagine they have to draw alot inable maintain steerage while the foils are on a plane.

    Once browsing Ebay I saw a Wild Cat with kick up mount for the rudders much like a full sized Hobe. Never saw it again, I didn't contact the owner in a timely manor so I could not find out where they came from. If my rudders would kick up when they hit the weeds, I bet the keels would slip right through.
     

  9. Foilers 
    #9
    A short history of full size sailing foilers(see www.foils.org for much more): One of the first and ,perhaps, most well known sailing foilers was "Monitor" a Navy sponsored project of Baker Mfg. in the 50's- lots of innovative stuff on this boat but what is generally not known is that it was a MONOHULL.It uses three sets of ladder foils arranged in such a manner as to lift and generate righting moment. Though it was a monohull it uses a foil system generally (now) recognized as a multihull foil configuration. After that there was all kinds of development including Icarus,a Tornado cat on foils, Mayfly and others. More recently Greg Ketterman developed the Hobie trifoiler and Dr. Sam Bradfield developed the Rave(see http:members.aol.com/HYDROSAIL/ ). Both the Rave and the Hobie Trifoiler use fuly submerged foils that develop their own Righting Moment in addition to lift. In just the last 6 years a revolutionary development has taken place in sailing hydrofoils and that is the foiling Moth a truly incredible boat that sails on just two foils-all other sailing foilers until about 1999 sailed on a minimum of three foils!
    To the best of my knowledge there is only one production rc sailing hydrofoil and that is the F3 by microSAIL!(very expensive- http://www.microsail.com/multihull.html Video: http://www.microsail.com/video.html ). It is 72" wide and 56" long; the greater width is a big advantage when designing a multifoiler because the extra beam helps to unload the foils and helps get the boat flying faster. There is no reason a boat like the F3 couldn't be built much smaller and/or with retracting hydrofoils.
    There are many model rc trimarans that are available mostly as just plans. Few if any are also foilers but some could be modified for this purpose. You can't have a Hobie 16 type kickup rudder on a foiler because the rudder needs a hydrofoil on the bottom and if it kicked up something would break. You can ,however, vertically retract a rudder or rotate the rudder(something I'm workng on) so that in light air the rudder hydrofoil is fully retracted.
    Here are some more url's of possible interest:
    http://hydro-fly.ifrance.com/hydrofly/hudrofly.htm This is a French rc foiler that uses surface piercing foils. They have a disadvantage when compared to fully submerged foils in that they can more easily ventilate and ,generally, are not used to generate righting moment. They have an advantage in that they don't require an altitude control system like the F3(and Hobie Trifoiler and Rave) do.
    http://radioyachting.com/multihulls.htm Alan Hayes site with lots of rc multihull pictures and info.
    Modern full size(11')Moth foilers sailing on just TWO hydrofoils. RC versions of this are bound to appear sooner or later:
    http://www.moth.asn.au/pictures/2005...3-0376_IMG.htm
    Last edited by Doug Lord; 10-31-2005 at 06:01 PM.
     

  10. Victor Wild Cat Steering 
    #10
    Join Date
    04-19-2005
    Location
    Orlando, FL USA
    Posts
    16
    This was an interesting Question from a private mail. Just wanted to share....

    .................................................. .................................................. ..
    I read that you have a wildcat and that you modified it to sail well. I am planning to get one but was hesitant as one of the members of our group had one and, while it sails very quickly, it doesn't turn very well in any wind.

    Could you give me a few suggestions?..................
    .................................................. .................................................. ..

    Regardless of what anyone says I really love my boat. I had a problem with the steering too, but mine will turn on a dime now. For one I did not mount the rudders directly to the transom as indicated by the directions. Instead I mounted a small block of wood to the outside of the transom to mount the rudders to. Also I change the steering linkage from the servo control arm to the rudder increasing its length about a 1/2 inch. Both of these steps made for a full range of motion for the rudder. It now swings a full 180 degrees from 45 to 90 on the 180 axis.

    Your group member is right about it being fast. What amazes me the most it that I have not even come close to capsizing this boat. It does not do well in light wind and makes for a rather boring sail. It likes a good stiff breeze for fun.

    The biggest problem I had was the way the sheets (the lines for the sails) ran. For one my kit was about 5" too short for the way they had it rigged. Second the line would bind at the sail control arm. To fix the binding problem I used the ceramic eye from an old fishing pole and seated it into the sail control arm. I found myself using the ceramic eyes on a couple of other spots too, but I would have to draw you a diagram to show where and the other changes I made. Anyone interested contact me and I will give some more direct tweaking advise in regards to the rigging.

    One other problem...well same one was since the line was too short finding a suitable replacement. I found the best sliding, aesthetically pleasing, nylon line, in the form of replacement line for window blinds. I believe I got it at Home Depot.

    Also keep in mind that Multihull are a differnt breed of critter and even the real ones, multis steer alittle differntly than a mono hull.
    Last edited by jmat101; 10-21-2006 at 04:20 AM.
     

  11. Building the Victor Models Wild Cat 
    #11
    I also own a Victor Models Wild Cat but it is still in the box. I would like to know what type of glues you used in the assembly of the boat? The instructions seem to favor CA for everything. Did you make any modifications to the keel structure? What did you use for the hull to deck joint? I would really like to get this boat out of the box and onto the water.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmat101
    Does anyone out there have a multihulled sailboat?

    I own a Wild Cat by Victor Models and love it. Very Fast! I had to make a few changes outside of the orginal plans, so if you could use ideas or have ideas contact me.

    I have been looking for a sailing trimaran. The only one I found was a rather pricie sailing hydrofoil. Looked nice but I am uncertain about a hydrofoil, looks like it would draw too much water. The price tag was also out of range for may beginners (or just an average Joe like me). I have sailed many differnt cat's & tri's throughout my life. Trimarans seam the most stable and roomy. To keep my dream alive while I'm land locked I would love to find an R/C Trimaran, so if any one knows of one Please let me know. I will probably have to make one if not.

    If any other catamarans available please let me know as well?

    If you are not familar with multihull design ask I'll help what I can. They are fast and stable. Haveing more hulls in the water accually means less wetted surface equaling less drag meaning more speed. As a case history remember the America's Cup New Zealand Challege, Dennis Connor Vs New Zealand. Mono hulls cannot keep up. Though I tend to disagree and many others do too, with Connors decission to use the Cat, he stayed with the written rules and was able to use it and keep the Cup in America. The Cup will never see another multihull, but point proven.

    My fleet consists of;
    *Victor Models Wild Cat (Catamaran)
    *Aussie II (monohull snailboat) great beginner boat
    *MGA Shadow Shifter RTR (motor catamaran)
    *offbrand mini sub like a Megatech Ocean Explorer 1 (great to annoy my aquarium fish)

    Just a couple of my favorite sites
    Victor Models See the Wild Cat & other great boats
    Mega Tech See the Ocean Explorer 1 & other great boats
    MGA Entertainment See the Shadow Shifter

    I am not really a beginner been at this for a couple of years, but in the big picture, an intermeadate novice. I want to learn more from the senior members and others.
     

  12. Adhesve used 
    #12
    Join Date
    04-19-2005
    Location
    Orlando, FL USA
    Posts
    16
    To join the hull and deck I used a 2 part epoxy. In fact I found the 2 part epoxy worked well for the entire model. Just besure to sand all plastic peice where they are to be joined to ensure a proper bond. I was unhappy with the gap that remained between the deck and the hull so I filled it with a thin bead of clear silicone to ensure a water tight seal. Water and eletronic don't mix well so protect your investment. And no I did not modify the keel, except beveling the outside edges to reduce drag.
     

  13.  
    #13
    Thanks for the info. Did you use a special brand of epoxy, or something I could find at the hardware store? Do you any pictures of your boat?
     

  14.  
    #14
    Join Date
    04-19-2005
    Location
    Orlando, FL USA
    Posts
    16
    I don't remember exactly what brand I used, but most 2 part epoxies are close to the samething. I do remember it was a 50/50 mix, which are easiest to measure the proportions. There are some that are mostly resin with drops of activator (hardener), I would not recogmend them because they tend to heat up when they kick (harden) and may cause damage (melt) to the plastic. The 50/50 mix does not get that hot when they kick, but you must be pateint with your drying time (most take a good 24hrs to fully harden). There are some excess peices that you will not use in your constuction (eg the cap where you mount the servos, one set black one set white), once you deside which one you are going to use, use one to test the epoxy on to make sure it will not melt your model. Your hardware store should have it or a trip to the big W.

    Mind you I'm drawing most of my experince on working on the real thing, Big fiberglass and wooden Cat's and Tri's. I would maybe take your model to you local "TRUSTED" hobby shop that sells sailboats and see what they recogmend. I say "TRUSTED" because there are too many out there that are not so patient with the novice and don't know what to do if there isn't a motor attached. They are only looking to make the sale, selling a bunch of crap you don't need or just plan don't know what to do when it comes to sailboats.

    As far as pics... I been dragging my anchor. I promise I will get some up. More than likely I will post them on my "My space" and/or my "Yahoo 360" pages as that there is more room to post them. Once they are up I will post a link here.
     

  15.  
    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by jmat101
    Does anyone out there have a multihulled sailboat?

    I own a Wild Cat by Victor Models and love it. Very Fast! I had to make a few changes outside of the orginal plans, so if you could use ideas or have ideas contact me.

    I have been looking for a sailing trimaran. The only one I found was a rather pricie sailing hydrofoil. Looked nice but I am uncertain about a hydrofoil, looks like it would draw too much water. The price tag was also out of range for may beginners (or just an average Joe like me). I have sailed many differnt cat's & tri's throughout my life. Trimarans seam the most stable and roomy. To keep my dream alive while I'm land locked I would love to find an R/C Trimaran, so if any one knows of one Please let me know. I will probably have to make one if not.

    If any other catamarans available please let me know as well?

    If you are not familar with multihull design ask I'll help what I can. They are fast and stable. Haveing more hulls in the water accually means less wetted surface equaling less drag meaning more speed. As a case history remember the America's Cup New Zealand Challege, Dennis Connor Vs New Zealand. Mono hulls cannot keep up. Though I tend to disagree and many others do too, with Connors decission to use the Cat, he stayed with the written rules and was able to use it and keep the Cup in America. The Cup will never see another multihull, but point proven.

    My fleet consists of;
    *Victor Models Wild Cat (Catamaran)
    *Aussie II (monohull snailboat) great beginner boat
    *MGA Shadow Shifter RTR (motor catamaran)
    *offbrand mini sub like a Megatech Ocean Explorer 1 (great to annoy my aquarium fish)

    Just a couple of my favorite sites
    Victor Models See the Wild Cat & other great boats
    Mega Tech See the Ocean Explorer 1 & other great boats
    MGA Entertainment See the Shadow Shifter

    I am not really a beginner been at this for a couple of years, but in the big picture, an intermeadate novice. I want to learn more from the senior members and others.
    Hi You said you made changes in your Wild Cat, I need some imformation as too what changes you made? I have one Im working on now, Ive been sailing a Soling for sometime and the Cat is a big chance. Not much information around...........Terry
     

  16.  
    #16
    Hello, I'm a french RC multihull sailor with a 2m long trimaran.
    Here is her:
    http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/2...sm05bissa6.jpg

    A good information place is :
    http://www.multis2m.fr/

    But I think you will have to build your own multihull, or to buy a second hand one.
     

  17.  
    #17
    Robbe made multi hulls some years back, but they are out of production.

    But it should be possible to by a second hand.

    Robbe Topcat and Robbe Triana
     

  18. Cool WildCat upgrades 
    #18
    I just finished my Wildcat and I wish I would have found sites like this before I started. I re-engineered a lot of things that people already have.

    I sail beach catamarans often, so I am very familiar with the way they sail. I am also very familiar with the way they capsize, so I engineered a self righting system!!

    First, I used a wheel fairing from an old style model airplane for a mast float. I then added two winches. One controls a weight to move along the front beam. The other cants the mast from side to side.

    To right the boat, you cant the sail to the side with the hull in the water. That changes the angle of the boat so that the top hull is closer to the proper sailing position. You then move the weight to the top side and it rights itself!

    I haven't tested the righting system on the water, yet. The rudder broke off the first time I sailed it. I need to revisit the mounting on the steering system
    Attached Images
    Last edited by danberger; 01-29-2009 at 10:17 AM.
     

  19. A few more things... 
    #19
    I used Gorilla glue to glue the wood to plastic. I glued the hulls to the decks with it, too, but then went around the lip with marine sealant to make sure it was sealed.

    I used heat shrink wrap to cover the extension wire between hulls. I covered the antenna as well, but I think I need to take it out and run it up the mast.

    I used parts from the CR914 class: rubber bumpers for the bows, black adjusters instead of the white ones that came with the kit. They are a lot nicer and cleaner and you don't have to drill holes like the white blanks. I used the line from the 914s because I didn't get enough with the kit. I also added drain plugs to both bows just in case I took on water.

    I installed the keels backwards because a) they looked better and b) I shaped them before I read the instructions (duh). The kit is modeled after a Tornado catamaran, so I am definitely in the wrong. They are correct for certerboard catamarans like Hobie 17s, Prindle 19s BTW. I'm not thinking that will make a big difference.

    The instructions have you make a wire segment for the rear connector line (the back stay connector). I thought it was too short, so I added an inch to each 'leg'.

    The hard part was re-routing all the lines for the new servos

    I had to get a 4 channel unit to control the extra 2 channels.


    ...And, yes. It is Perriwinkle. Looked like a cool slate blue on the lid...
    Last edited by danberger; 01-28-2009 at 05:05 PM.
     

  20.  
    #20
    New Trimaranes 65M class - 65cm lenght



    more pics, video clips & plans available for free download at www.rcsails.com


    Have fun
    Phanchita
     

  21.  
    #21
    My latest design is a 65cm Catamaran - maidened on 29th of August, 2009



    There are some more pictures and video clips on my website rcsails.com

    Have fun looking
     

  22.  
    #22
    The Nightmare MK8,
    a Mini40 class design built by me



    video clips at http://www.rcsails.com/nightmare.htm

    Have fun
     

  23.  
    #23
    Another picture



    Have fun
     

  24.  
    #24
    Here is my latest project, the Venom a Mini40 catamaran. The prototype has maidened last week.
    She accelerates well in light winds and sails on one hull when winds pick up.

    Here are some pictures from her maiden








    There are some more pictures and some video clips on RCSails, I will do more sailing trials in high winds soon, clips will be found there...

    Cheers
     

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