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Thread: Team Orion Goes Li-poly!

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  1.  
    #51
    Join Date
    09-14-2002
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    Canada
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    2,649
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Schumacher
    Gold ones? A gold brick on RC car??? Looks so heavy on the chassis... I think carbon graphite will be much better.
    You guys can have whatever color you want on there. I'll be airbrushing my own graphics on it!
     

  2.  
    #52
    I think there will be label on it by the time it comes out Orion said this is a production sample before the warnings labels etc.

    I do like the idea of custom painting it though.
     

  3.  
    #53
    Join Date
    06-23-2004
    Location
    Austria
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    275
    What's so special on this LiPo from orion ?

    It is damn expensive and it even don't offer a balance plug.

    The Lipo can't be equilized like NiMh/NiCd with 1/10 1/20 continius charge ...

    And if the 2 Lipo cell inside the pack get out of balance ... the life of this pack will be very very short !

    RC car just need LiIon with saphion technology or similar (overdischarge is not an issue with saphion) in a metal cylinder cell ... something like 23x65 format.

    This orion stuff it is no better and not cheaper the the already available kokam 3200 20C.

    One other issue with LiPo cells ... some ESC do charge back the pack under brake ... this can create high spike of current back ... and potentially exceed the 4.25V per cell ... damaging LiPos ...

    e_lm_70
     

  4.  
    #54
    Join Date
    06-05-2000
    Location
    Rockford, IL
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    1,184
    Quote Originally Posted by electro21
    To me that is a bit pricey. I can buy (3) 3800mah matched packs for that price. I'll have 11,400mah instead of 4800mah.
    I was going to use close to same example. Ive seen 3000mah packs for $15 thats 11 packs or 33000mah for less than this one pack.
     

  5.  
    #55
    6000mah (sport) for $30 or 7600mah (race) for $80 versus 4800mah (race) for $125. Seems like a no-brainer to me!
     

  6.  
    #56
    Quote Originally Posted by e_lm_70
    What's so special on this LiPo from orion ?

    It is damn expensive and it even don't offer a balance plug.

    The Lipo can't be equilized like NiMh/NiCd with 1/10 1/20 continius charge ...

    And if the 2 Lipo cell inside the pack get out of balance ... the life of this pack will be very very short !

    To be completely fair, we're not exactly sure what's going on in the case just yet. There may be some type of built in balancing, or it might not need it at all. Guess we just have to wait and see
     

  7.  
    #57
    Join Date
    03-21-2003
    Posts
    3,173
    Intill thay make LiPo,s "basher" proof(ish)and more user friendly most people will not use them.Because there are far more basher the racers.
     

  8.  
    #58
    Join Date
    07-21-2003
    Location
    Buffalo, NY
    Posts
    97
    I don't know what the big deal is, I've had this Tamiya Li-Po sitting around for approximately 20 years now. Used it to power my Wild One. Looks like Orion just copied them. Sheesh, where has all the innovation gone in RC.

     

  9.  
    #59
    I agree with RrR. Bashers keep the hobby going.
     

  10.  
    #60
    I think it's dialed obviousely the case is built for durability and there has got to be something going on with the cells to make them special or they would have released them a year ago and been making money ever since. Remember people batteries evolve even the latest NiMh are a huge improvement on the cells we were running 3 years ago if you haven't noticed then you haven't been paying enough attention. I could be wrong but we will all know once they are relased as everything now is just speculation based on a image and experience with other cells which are more then likely different.
     

  11.  
    #61
    Join Date
    04-29-2004
    Location
    Toronto, ON
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    215
    Quote Originally Posted by elcid4300
    To be completely fair, we're not exactly sure what's going on in the case just yet. There may be some type of built in balancing, or it might not need it at all. Guess we just have to wait and see
    Regardless if the orion packs will provide individual cell balancing capabilities or not. The Kokam's 20c 3200 Mahs batteries are already equipped with this option in addition to other cell formats: 2s, 3s and 4s
     

  12.  
    #62
    Join Date
    04-09-2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    650
    The big deal to me is that one of the big RC CAR companies has jumped into the LIPO seen. This is very good news to me or anyone else who loves LIPO. NIHM cells are such a pain in the butt. You have to go through so many charge, discharge, cycle, balance trays and do a rain dance just to get them to perform. With LIPO there is none of this nonsense because there is no memory. Just think of the pack as a "fuel tank". You put energy in, use it and fill it back up. It's that simple. Cells need to be balanced once in a while but I've got a pack that I've used extensively and I don't even own a balancer. It runs as strong now as ever and no problems. This is what I like most about my LIPO, with the 30 min runtime a close 2nd.

    The power is also much better. Trust me, you'll think you've got a 7 or 8 cell NIHM in the car.

    So yea, it's more expensive but your paying for the best performing batteries ever with LIPO. It's a " whole nother league" compared to NIHM.
     

  13.  
    #63
    Join Date
    04-29-2004
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
    215
    The more practical experience one has with Lithium Polymer cells the more educated one can get around this amazing technololgy. There is an enormous underground rc brushless/LiPo car community well aware and taking advantage of this technology for many many years now and growing.

    In my opinion just because one of the first recognized "brushed technology oriented" manufacturer is taking a stand a late in the LiPo game does not mean that one should mentally follow or prepare for change according to their marketing needs. The point is its out there and available for use.

    I've been using both 2s and 4s LiPo to power a few of many of the available kv rated sensorless/brushless motors and never felt the need to purchase NiMh packs again let alone using brushed motors.

    Unlike NiMh there are no memory effects, half the weight, stays slightly cool to warm under high discharge, no waiting period to charge, greater charging cycles, 20+ min runtimes on mod brushless motors (depending on setup) etc.. etc.. etc.. etc..
     

  14.  
    #64
    I think eventually brushless motors will be as affordale as brushed motors. Remember how expensive the Hacker E-maxx system is vs. the Novak system ($450 vs. 280). I feel the same about the LiPo compared to NiCd/NiMh. When NiMh 3300s came out they were too expensive for most people. The same holds true with LiPo. It's not that people don't want it or don't recognize the benefits, the average person just can't afford the expensive battery, plus a new charger. Once the price comes down you'll see more people jumping on the band wagon.
     

  15.  
    #65
    Join Date
    01-07-2004
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    1,913
    Looks like fun....

    About the MRC 969 charger, it can be upgraded for free to 977 specs, which means Lipo capability.

    Even if Lipo has been out for a long time and for a cheaper price elsewhere, I think people will be more likely to get into them if Orion (or a similarly big company) starts carrying them. I think this pack brings a mainstream, plug and play sort of aspect to Lipo.
     

  16.  
    #66
    Join Date
    12-18-2003
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    230
    Quote Originally Posted by SS Pede

    About the MRC 969 charger, it can be upgraded for free to 977 specs, which means Lipo capability.
    OK, I did not know that.
    However, it says in the 969 specs that it is lipo charge capable, when it clearly isnt, so I wouldnt trust the 977 either.
    Maybe Im too careful, but I dont like to risk my lipos (I have a Triton, and 10 lipos).

    I think one plus point that people dont realise about lipos is that altough the 0.2V difference doesnt sound like much (7.2 Nimh vs 7.4V lipo), the thing is that when pushed hard (I mean by going full throttle, not squeezing them in a vice... ), Nimhs drop volatge a lot, wherease lipos keep a near constant volatge, meaning more power e.t.c.


    Cheers, Duane
    Last edited by minimole; 11-04-2005 at 06:48 PM.
     

  17.  
    #67
    Join Date
    03-28-2001
    Location
    Paramount/ CA
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    523
    Quote Originally Posted by pullinteef
    I don't know what the big deal is, I've had this Tamiya Li-Po sitting around for approximately 20 years now. Used it to power my Wild One. Looks like Orion just copied them. Sheesh, where has all the innovation gone in RC.


    Nice photoshop work....

    He who KNOWS he's stupid is actually kinda smart
     

  18.  
    #68
    Join Date
    01-07-2004
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    1,913
    Quote Originally Posted by minimole
    OK, I did not know that.
    However, it says in the 969 specs that it is lipo charge capable, when it clearly isnt, so I wouldnt trust the 977 either.
    Maybe Im too careful, but I dont like to risk lipos (I have a Triton, and 10 lipos).

    I think one plus point that people dont realise about lipos is that altough the 0.2V difference doesnt sound like much (7.2 Nimh vs 7.4V lipo), the thing is that when pushed hard (I mean by going full throttle, not squeezing them in a vice... ), Nimhs drop volatge a lot, wherease lipos keep a near constant volatge, meaning more power e.t.c.


    Cheers, Duane
    It definitely doesn't hurt to be cautious about charging Lipo's. At the moment I'm not planning on getting into Lipo (though this pack is intriguing), but if I do I'll probably try upgrading my 969 to 977 specs. If it works, its better than buying a new charger.

    I am a run time ADDICT, so I may end up going Lipo sooner or later. We'll see.
     

  19.  
    #69
    Join Date
    12-18-2003
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    230
    Quote Originally Posted by Akura2
    Nice photoshop work....

    LOL, he forgot to change the 7.2V to 7.4V...

    SS, yep.
    You guys do know that you can get decent 3 cell lipo charger for like 30 bux right? I would much rather get one of them than use a 'dodgy' charger.

    Duane.
     

  20. hmm 
    #70
    another reason to go eklectruic
     

  21.  
    #71
    Join Date
    04-29-2004
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
    215
    On the contrary brushless motors and Lipos are more affordable than their brushed and Nimh counterparts.

    When comparing the overall variables, a good brushless motor can range from $60 and upward. A brushed motor may cost less than $60 but will burn a hole in your pocket once you add the required maitenance costs of brushes, coms, lathes etc.

    From a battery point of view e.g. a pack of Kokam 20C 2s 7.4v 3200 mah (pre installed with Deans connectors) will run around under $100. Considering that the average runtime of 1 Lipo is triple the average run time of 1 pack of the highest rated NiMh - I'm pretty sure the cost of 3 Nimh packs far exceeds the cost of 1 LiPo. U eventually end up paying for what u get.

    Having said all this regarding the technology mentioned above (Lipo/Brushless/sensorless) they are pretty much plug n' play. As far as brushless is concerned they have gone mainstream for all rc cars, boats, planes and/or helis combined . The rest of the "big labels" focusing their market on brushed/NiMh products will just have to play catch.
     

  22.  
    #72
    Join Date
    01-07-2004
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    1,913
    Out of curiosity, what sort of charge rate is acceptable for Lipo's? Or this pack in particular?
     

  23.  
    #73
    Join Date
    12-18-2003
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    230
    Max of 1C. I try to do a max of 0.7C to be kind to my lipos.

    e.g
    (for 1C)
    1500 pack, charge at 1.5A
    3000 pack, charge at 3A
    e.t.c.

    HTH, Duane.
     

  24.  
    #74
    Join Date
    09-25-2001
    Location
    Ft. Collins, CO, USA
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    1,159
    That's the only downfall right now, the charge rate. All lipo packs take over 1 hour to fully charge.
     

  25.  
    #75
    Awesome sweet and all that other sh*t I've been runnin LiPos for a wile now with no problems. You can buy cutoffs if your ESC dosen't have it, and with the new sensor stuff for Spectrum you can see your batterys voltage any time. I run my packs at lest twice a week and have never balanced them and they still take the same amount of mah. and no proformance loss ether and I don't even run a cutoff and yes I have run them dead a few times(dead enough that my car wouldn't move), now I swear by the LiPo.....

    LiPo POWER LiPo POWER
     

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